Talk:Expanded NOOB Guide for Starters and New Players, by MRtrader

You just love copy-pasting stuff, don't you?

Problems that need to be addressed asap:

• The title must be changed. The word "noob" is highly offensive, especially when written LIKE THAT IN ALL CAPS, so it needs to be scraped, and the author of the guide need not be named in the title of the article either.
• The permission (preferably in writing) of the author of the original guide should be obtained to reproduce said guide here.
• Both the red links need to be removed from the article. Prof. Torr (talk) 01:40, 7 May 2013 (CEST)

   

There is a problem here, but none of these are it:

• Nobody is offended by any words on this page.
• Permission already received. Check forum.
• See a red link you don't like? Fix it.

As for the author's name...we should get in the habit of including the author in page names in the Guides section only. This is because it can be predicted that multiple guides will have the same name, so author will be the only way to distinguish them. For example, once you finally add your guide called "New Player Walk-Though", someone else might add one too but do it very differently. Both are valid contributions, but now he cannot call his "New Player Walk-Through". So yours should be called "New Player Walk-Through, by Torr" and his would be called "New Player Walk-Through, by Otherguy".

• Cast your vote, everyone: if you're editing this wiki, you should actually play the game. -Marko 07 May 2013

   

• The word "noob" is offensive, period. Therefore, it does not belong here. This is a fact and as such need not be discussed. The title as it is now is completely unacceptable.

• I've found it. Normally, I'd say that a simple "feel free to use as you wish" is not good enough (feel free to use *what*?), but I guess it'll have to suffice.

• All right, if you have to be so uncooperative, have it your way. I'll remove the red links myself.

Let's now move on to the issue of including author names in article titles. This is a wiki. Its purpose is aggregating knowledge, not promoting individuals. At the end of the day, it is completely irrelevant who wrote what as long as no copyright infringement took place. Therefore, no author names in article titles please, thank you. As for the argument that we might have several articles on the same subject by a number of different authors: it is invalid. We should strive to avoid unnecessary compartmentalization. Instead of starting a new article every time someone writes a guide, and devising ways of accommodating these new articles, we should simply expand the articles that are here already by including in them the new content that we feel might be of interest to the readers. Problem solved. Prof. Torr (talk) 03:39, 9 May 2013 (CEST)

A few suggestions:

• I don't know what active playing the game has to do with having something to say about the wiki writing. You shouldn't put false information about the game but this applies for everyone. And especially Prof. Torr did so much work in this wiki and played long enough that he doesn't need to prove anything to anyone. Also I would suggest to avoid playing "let's vote" card, I think it should be the last resort if a consensus can't be reached for a longer time and changes need to be made, not a magical solution for every problem.
• I agree with Prof. Torr that words like "noob" shouldn't be in the wiki, not even because they are offensive but because it makes the whole thing look "crappy" (I can't think of a better word, sorry). Other words that I think shouldn't be used: "dude", "stuff", Web acronyms, basically anything that is a slang. Just imagine a beautiful printed game manual and a beautiful printed guidebook and what style and quality of writing would be there, that's what we (hopefully) will strive for.
• Either add original name of author in every guide title or don't add it in any. One or another might be better, but there is nothing worse than being inconsistent. In my opinion we don't need author names in titles, it's not that important to have it on top. Please remember this is GAME MANUAL - not a distribution platform for anyone who writes something somewhere. Also original author should give permission for editing not only to paste it in the wiki, we can't just copy/paste stuff from anywhere in the Web without any changes and forget about it.
• I don't know what's the BenKain red link for and with all respect to BenKain I don't think we need to put references about any specific player in the game's manual or in the guides unless it's REALLY relevant to the game (and it's not). The same goes about developers or Game Masters. --JovankaB (talk) 07:19, 8 May 2013 (CEST)

Not sure what the real problem here, its a guide so it shouldn't be changed by anyone else than its creator. If author used word "noob" then he had a reason to do it - we shouldn't do any changes, just put this into guides with note that this is personnal work or something like that. -Lambhelt 08:49, 8 May 2013 (GMT +1).

If the author used the word "noob," and insists on keeping it

The problem is this is WIKI (which means it is and SHOULD be editable by anyone as long as it improves the contents) not anyones publishing platform. If you don't want you article to be edited, reworked etc, don't put it here in the first place. --JovankaB (talk) 09:08, 8 May 2013 (CEST)

All i`m saying is that this work was done by some forum member and copy-pasted here. Its not mine. While i`m ok with editing my content (hell i`m glad when someone is correcting my mistakes) i don`t think we shoud treat guides the same way. For example removing words like "noob" is bad way to deal with this article. Since we woud be then editing/changing the original content and meaning of the guide.(My english is to bad to explain it clearer, i think that if we copy-paste something here it shoudn`t be edited beyound adding links) -Lambhelt 09:26, 8 May 2013 (GMT +1).

Then if author didn't give clear permission to edit the article by others, such content shouldn't be added to wiki at all in my opinion, because WIKI is not place for such content, the whole point of wiki is that anyone can edit it. For copyrighted works which can't be modified there are external links. I'm all for guides section but either they should be written from scratch or there should be no doubt it's public domain or released under license allowing anyone to adapt and/or modify it. --JovankaB (talk) 09:37, 8 May 2013 (CEST)

Guides are different, and would be one of the rare examples of wiki content that could logically include author's name. However, going forward, i agree that slang terms are kinda trashy. So...next time someone posts a guide on the forum that is good enough (like this one) to be wikied, we should work with the author to get agreement on a more suitable name. I should have done that with MRtrader.

• Including links on a wiki page to other wiki pages is part of what makes any wiki strong, so i see no reason not to link a BenedictKain reference to the proper page.
• NOOB is trashy, i agree. Slang yeah. It should go, but nobody is offended by it.
• Nothing wrong with copying/pasting info into wiki. How else to get MRtrader's guide here?
• Author gave permission in this case. Otherwise i would not have added it.
• I find it irritating (but maybe that is Torr's purpose) that a non-player is causing problems here. Torr, do you see how other people talk to each other? Do you not care? Just try, man. I believe in you. Try please. Thanks in advance.

-Marko 08 May 2013

• In your *opinion* guides are different from other articles. The fact of the matter though is that they are just regular articles. It's good you've finally acknowledged at least that offensive terms such as "noob" do not belong here. Now's the time to change the title or have it changed for you.
• BenedictKain is just a random player of zero notability. Suggesting that s/he should have his/her own article here is ludicrous.
• What's wrong with copy-pasting is that you could simply provide a link instead. If something is not worth the time you'd spend paraphrasing it, it's not worth putting it here at all other than in the form of a URL.
• I don't know what kind of "problems" you might be referring to, but I'm pretty sure that no non-player is causing them. If you make questionable decisions, don't be surprised when someone comes forward to challenge them. Prof. Torr (talk) 05:15, 9 May 2013 (CEST)

• If the guide is indeed intended for "noobs", then I do not see why it should not be mentioned in the article name. If it's referring to "newb" then it could be considered insulting. On the other hand, "wasteland is harsh".
• There is no need to create an article for player indeed, specially when it's wiki user/contributor User:BenedictKain and as such, he has his own personal page already.
• The guide seems as a work in progress. It would be best, if the original writer himself did rewrite the article since it was obviously meant for forum as "said in a reply to this post have a look at his reply first" and other similar stuff suggests.
• But it does not seem to me like a big deal, there are more important stings to do than arguing about this article. Just check To Do page, there is whole lot of changelogs that were not reflected on wiki yet. Articles about followers could really do with some serious overhaul. Etc, etc. --Ronillon (talk) 08:28, 9 May 2013 (CEST)